Hey everyone, I need to know what a great setup would be for a all-motor build on a b18b1 engine.

I do not want anything else other than all motor build so please dont suggest boosting or nitrous or anything else. I've made up my mind and I'm going to stick with it.

If you have an all-motor build, please tell me about it and if u can, please suggest what I can do for the future when I do my build.

I am planning to put a b16 head with the b18 block... and i have other things in mind, i just want your input to what the best setup would be.

Thanx for your help!

LS/VTEC, eh?

yup

can't wait till i start wrenching

do u have any pointers?

Yeah..don't do it.

What's your budget?? Be prepared to spend a lot if you're trying to get a substantial amount of horsepower out of a n/a setup.

Your wallet eill deside how much of a build you can do. LOL. I thought I would add a little here and there, and my builds are running me into thousands! It just all adds up to a lot of money, and you can't go half way, when you start a build it has to be complete in order not to have any problems in the long run. I did my GSR half way and ended up blowing up the motor. Do not be cheap about the parts you buy, get high quality parts from trusted brands. If you buy used, make sure you know who you getting it from, how the part was used, is the person trustworthy, ...... You know the deal, research and then buy.

Your first post bothers me.

You say you have made up your mind that you want to do an N/A build and you have totally ruled out an FI setup, but then you come here asking "whats a good setup". Do some research, there are a thousand ways to make power and you are only limited by your budget. I hope that you have an extra arm & a leg, because that is what it will cost to build an N/A powerplant that comes anywhere near what you can get out of boost.

One of the most powerful LS N/A builds I've ever seen made 220whp, cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $10K, and because of the EXTREMELY high compression, had to run on race gas.

On the other hand, many people with LS Turbo setups are pushing 350+whp in very reliable daily drivers for about half the money.

Take your LS motor and put it into an EG. Its lighter... period! Outside of a VTEC setup or even a nice LS/VTEC setup you're not going to push anything more than maybe 180hp. And I'm hoping that you've got a manual LS.

And there's a difference if you're trying to man up with a Bseries N/A versus a Kseries motor in your LS and be naturally aspired. You can buy bolt-on after bolt-on with your B18b and outspend a stock Kseries swap or B18/Turbo. JM2C

i have mildly built n/a h22. check my sig.

thanx for all the advice everyone
i think i will have to reconsider my plans... i am a little short on the money side...
but ill do some more research and hopefully find what im looking for

it's just, i dont wanna be just another guy with a another turbo integra ya' know??

oh and yea my LS is manual or course, cant stand auto...uber gay
also, this is my first car, not even done with school yet but im planning to go far with this car. keep it as long as i can, so i dont really care if it'll only have 200hp, just as long as i've built it, and i know it inside out, pro's and con's, then ill be happy... maybe when i get a project car, i'll boost...depending on what it will be

This post was last modified: 07-24-2008 11:00 PM by DBseven.

P&P the head get some: dual valve springs, fairly agressive cams(blox B will work). P30 or PCT pistons. Eagle rods, a good I/H/E. hondata and a good tuner

do what im doing. build the motor section by section so you can keep your car running while youre modding it. it keeps the cost going progressively, so its not a whole bunch of money you dont have all at once to dump in your car.

first, top quality bolt ons:
intake, then a good header (im suggesting any tri-y design, thats what has always been best for n/a b-series) then a good exhaust. i went ahead and put a 2.5" exhaust on mine right away. i knew that it would need to be that big with my build anyway, so might as well put it like that instead of upgrading.
after that, an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator and fuel pressure gauge. its just a good thing to have when you start putting real mods on your car.

after that, i'd start with the head. the cool thing about building this part of your motor first is that you can almost do everything without having to pull the motor. the most you'll have to do probably is pull the head off the block. from there, i'd start off with cam gears, then a valvetrain kit (dual springs, retainers, valves too maybe but not necessary), then you can move to cams. i'm currently using brian crowers n/a stage 2 cams (without an aftermarket valvetrain) and its running completely fine. the valvetrain is more for just reliability. but yeah those cams arent very expensive at all, and its definitely worth it.

from there, i'd get to tuning. by this time, your car is begging for some recollection. i'd go with any basic apexi AFC. i went with the afc neo, got it tuned by a tuner, and holy hell; i'm talking about a day and night difference. in fact, it wasnt till the tune when i really felt what the cams are doing. dont worry about going to hondata or any tuning software like that yet, its not worth it yet. with this sort of build, it would cost you so much money, and youd get such little results, that its seriously not worth it unless youre rolling in it.

from here, start on the block. dont necessarily think this is where you can go all out, you still need to keep one thing on top of your mind; RELIABILITY! taking care of all the little things is so crucial. if you could, take your block to someone that has experience in doing it (especially if you dont) then do that. if not, and youre willing to take a lot of time on doing EVERYTHING right, then by all means do that. just dont forget that block guard!


i know this is really long, but you gotta hear everyone out; building an all-motor monster from a B is super awesome, but it costs a lot (both time and money) to have one running strong and reliable.

idk if you've considered compressions that you wanted to go with or not for your block, but im recommending (assuming youre gonna be daily driving this) not going any higher than 11.5 or 12 even, unless you plan on doing any sort of sleeving/boring.




i'll make a build thread pretty soon. its just that i'm trying to do what i showed you, build my car, and have it running at the same time. im buying a lot of what i need, then asking someone what else i "might need" while i have whatever i have off. its a really good idea to do so. it just really sucks when youre doing something like pulling the motor from the car about to install some fresh pistons....and by the time you have the old pistons out....your friend forgot to bring over the new copper rings. it sucks, make sure you have everything you need.

DOING IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME IS ALWAYS CHEAPER, MORE CONVENIENT, AND BETTER THAN DOING IT WRONG AND RIGHT ONCE EACH.

This post was last modified: 07-26-2008 08:04 PM by bentegrity.

My suggestion to get you somewhere @ 180-190hp to the wheels.....

B16 head mated up with you stock LS block. The head NEEDS to be sent out for some serious port work.

Full Skunk2 pro series valvetrain, along with Skunk2 pro1 cams.

Walbro 255 fuel pump along with some RC 310 injectors.

DTR/SSR 4-2-1 header

Hondata S300 or AEM EMS for tuning.

Gut as much crap out of the car as you can.

BAM!!! Fun driving ahead!!

thanx a lot for the info bentegrity!!

that really helped me out in the direction that i want to go, and i learned a lot

cant wait to see ur build thread!

def spend some time research your tunning options. some people swear by there hondata, but im a crome/ neptune man myself. all good stuff. depends on what build direction you ultimately go for.

Yes building a RELIABLE n/a b series is going to cost quite a bit of cash. I am finally finishing up my monster an I have started to lose track of how much I have spent. I have a b18 that has been resleeved an bored out to a 2.2 with 11.7:1 pistons an eagle rods. I put on a b16 head that has had a race p&p, full crower valvetrain with 3/4 race crower cams. I am saving right now to get some tmw's but I will tell you this, I have spent a boat load of dough an I will be putting down something like 270-290.

^^ thats usually the case. i know i lost track myself. 270-290 at the crank? sounds like a good build post some pics. id love to see that setup.

well its a good thing im planning to keep this car as long as i live, so time wont be a problem for me...hopefully

I'm going to go off of what bentegrity said, and make some modifications to his advice based on my experience.

You're doing LS/VTEC.

Find any Bseries VTEC head in decent shape, but not a B16 head from 1998 on up. Cast shift made some errors that are not repairable.

On the head, you're going to want to put dual valve springs, new Honda LMAs, flat faced valves, and titanium retainers. P&P is a good idea if you want to make upwards of 220-250hp, but if you only want about 200, P&P is not necessary. Hone the deck of the head to make sure you get a good seal. Also, either clean, or get a new VTEC solenoid. Get adjustable cam gears. Your tuner will love you.

You're using your B18B1 block. Get it sleeved first. Then have it bored to 84mm or 85mm.

Darton, Golden Eagle, Dart are all good sleeve companies. You could also get the sleeves posted by ENDYN of Ft Worth, Texas. They've been doing this on NASCAR engines (900hp at the wheels, NA) since the 60s. Rods need to be good stout ones. Eagle has H- and I-beam rods that aren't too terribly expensive, and a lot of top racers use them. Wiseco for pistons, IMO. ENDYN has collaborated with Wiseco and produced the "Rollerwave" piston. Awesome piece of metal. Make sure you get ample valve reliefs so you don't grenade your engine at the first startup. Balance the crank, maybe even get it knife-edged for good oil flow and to reduce the drag though the oil. DO NOT SKIMP OUT ON BEARINGS OR PISTON RINGS!!!! You WILL grenade your engine. Period. If you've never driven a car with a spun bearing or a blown ring, consider yourself lucky. It could cost you thousands of dollars for a new engine. You will need a GSR water pump and oil pump (you could get the Type-R pumps, but they're no different), as well as a GSR T-belt. While the engine is torn down, go ahead and replace the front and rear main seals, just to be safe and clean.

For cams, I would suggest Skunk2 Tuner2 or 3. They have an aggressive profile and a nice lope to them. M22s and M24s are freaking incredible cams, but they are also freaking expensive. Blox and Skunk2 have very similar profiles. Then there is the almighty Buddy Club cams. They too are pretty freakishly expensive.

Get a NEW distributer from Honda. Not O'Rielly's or AutoZone or Napa, etc.

You will need tuning. No matter what. Hondata S300, you can't go wrong with it. If you wind up boosting in the future, you can do boost by gear. You can also do fuel maps by gear and by rpm, down to each 100rpm.

You should probably get your tranny rebuilt with a GSR 3rd gear and Final Drive gear (the only differences in the LS and GSR trannys)

If you want to, you can get upgraded axles. I like Driveshaft Shop. Great people. Great customer service. Great product.

Clutch has not been mentioned yet. Clutchmasters Stage3, and Fidanza 9# flywheel will help you reach your goals, but you can use whatever clutch and flywheel combo you want. Lowering the weight of the high speed rotating mass inside the block actually frees up some hprsepower and torque due to the ease at which the crank can rotate.

Ultimately, this is your build. Use whatever products you want in whatever combination you want. We just want to help you.

Remember, only use used parts if a new part is literally impossible to find. And if all else fails, and your budget allows, you can call companies to make custom parts (highly unlikely).

Have fun with your build, and don't forget to post pictures.

thanks for all the advice, u guys know a bunch of stuff

once i start my build, i'll definetly post pics

We're here to help.

um... Ls/vtec will give you anxiety about the whole project... i hope you have another car to drive while you r workin on it... i will take you multiple weeks. personally i would go with a B18C1 or C5 depending on what you want to do and what your budget allows. Ls/vtec is not very reliable and you would be much happier with a GSR swap. they also cost about the same with less work on the swap side.

personally i would go with a GSR instead if a type R swap. start with a B18C1 and slowly build it up with type R internals and a LSD and get your hands on a type R tans. bore you engine and up the compression. port the head. be careful of over camming your engine. dont just work on the head make sure you mod the block too, connecting rods, new pistons, etc...

have fun and goo luck with the build. GAS WILL GET EXPENSIVE with a all motor build and your gas milage will nose dive... but hey if you can afford it then more power to you

LS/VTEC is only unreliable if you don't mill the head and block. Once that is done you have to make sure you get the VTEC oil passage plug in the passage flush if not recessed into the surface of the head.

Also, building a B18B1 isn't all that different from building a C1 or a C5. The main differences are the lack of a block girdle, longer rods, 2mm longer stroke, and no oil jets (C5 also has a knock sensor). Otherwise, it's exactly the same. Shoot even some of the part numbers are the same. Piston rings, and front/rear main seals are the same I think.

Eagle has the stock length 137mm rods for $400.
ENDYN has awesome Rollerwave pistons that were designed with the help of Wiseco for $525
Get the crank micropolished and balanced, and the block bored to 84mm and you have a pretty damn good more than basic all motor setup.

Building an engine is essentially the same thing all across the board, from Chevy V8 to Honda I4.

sorry im gunna sound like a noob but wut do u mean by mill?
do u mean P&P the head and bore out the block?

just make sure tha you take your time with what ever you do, because you dont want to end up wih something that you put all of your money into and you have nothing to show for it but a check from a junk yard for $150... this has happened to me before that is the only reason i said that... but really make sure you research all of your possibilities and do it right the first time or dont do it at all.

Yep, the truth has spoken. I couldn't agree more.

BTW, I couldn't help but notice that sexy cleavage in one of the avatars.

By milling the head and block, I mean the mating surface between the head and block. Obviously the head gasket will be there, but it can't fill the discrepancies between the warping of the head and the block. P&P would be a good thing to do if you really want to make a good amount of power, but it's not necessary if you get an ITR head as those are ported from the factory. Even if you get a GSR or B16 head (neither of which are ported), the P&P isn't critical to make power.

Boring the block also isn't a bad idea. Again, not necessary to the initial build, but definitely necessary if you're trying to make more than 190-200hp at the wheels.

I'm boring mine to 84mm because no one I could find stocked 83mm pistons, and I don't want to pay the extra however much it is to have 83mm pistons made for me.

Like J_Jay_B said, spend the cash for the better name brand parts and make sure you do it right the first time. Chances are higher that you might blow the engine due to the added stress of more power. Power that the B18B1 was not designed to handle.

Do you already have the motor you plan on building? If not, have you thought about doing an H2B setup?

He said he wants a B18B1 as his block. He drives a DB7 which has the B18B1 in it...why stray away from what he has? H2B is a great setup, but H22s are expensive when for people who already have an engine to build.

It would be a good idea to look at if he wants an "easy" 200hp though.

lol to be honest i kinda changed my mind to boost it

im still planning to do a ls-vtec but now with the b18c1 head and a turbo

but still all the info u guys gave me helped be out so much.
i started this thread barely knowing anything on a ls-vtec and all different things but know i have the knowledge to build one with confidence

thanx for all the help again!!