I have been doing my homework on this swap for a 1990 Integra. I know all the basic stuff and what I need and what have you, but I am still wondering about this one question that I have.

This maybe a really silly quesiton or even a stupid one. But when I get down to purchasing an ECU for it for the B16A swap, when I have it installed and the car needs to be inspected and they plug it up. Is it going to read that the engine in the car doesnt match the vin on the car and everything like that causing it to fail it?

Just fill me in on the ECU and then getting a car with a swapped motor inspected...

I hope I made that clear enough for everyone to understand.

Thanks

Texas doesn't check that. Just safety and emissions. Make sure you have a cat, muffler, and air filter and you keep the amount of fuel going into it at a sane level.

Ah I'm not really looking for it consume any more fuel then it should. I'm not planning on really getting it down and dirty and turning into some kind of street monster. Haha if you would call it such.

Right now I'm just doing my homework and finding everything out I can about the swap and everything to get it going and to improve it a little...

I want to turn into something peppy and autocrossible.

Thanks for the heads up.[/i]

Why did you settle on a B16?

I haven't really settled for the B16A entirely yet. Its really still up in the air.

The reason why I am looking into that motor in particular is because I have heard that is a fairly easy swap and virtually all I need is add V-tec to my wiring harness and pick that e.c.u up

If and thats if I decide to swap any motor, it will be my first time doing so as well. So if I can get something thats fairly easy to install that would be even better.

I would really love to turn into an XSi.

I know that the B16A isn't entirely the best choice but this is going to be something thats doable with my time, my skill level. I know that it doesn't have that great of a bottom end to it and its torque isn't all that great.

But who knows maybe when I pull my B18A1 out maybe I will get to tinkering on it and rebuild it. Maybe then I'll have some more time and better skill at what to do and then maybe settle for something a bit more " out there ".

Go for it dude. You got nothing to lose with the B16. Sure it's got no torque, and the bottom end isn't the strongest on the world, but all in all it's a great engine.

What part of Texas are you in?

What is not strong about the b16 bottom end? It's a stock honda bottom end. It's not bulletproof but Honda bottom ends are VERY high quality and very strong. There are lots of boosted B16s on stock bottom ends pushing 300 whp on relativly decent boost levels, and plenty running 200whp+ on stock bottom ends.

Not 300whp reliably...unless your defintion if reliablity is a bit laxed. 200whp would be pretty solid if you're talking forced induction. But if you have a 200whp NA B16, it's a race motor...probably not streetable at all...and it definately won't have a stock bottom end.

Stock Honda bottom ends aren't very strong. The pistons are cast, the rods are meant for NA. But I'll agree that the B16A isn't any weaker than other B series engines.

The OP really isn't looking for much power over stock, though...so those topics are really irrelevant.

What he is looking for is some information.

OP: All the ECU cares about is that all the functions it's looking for are present and working. It doesn't interface with the chassis that much. It won't matter for inspection, but keep all your paperwork and receipts for the engine swap.

The B16A is going to be a bit anemic in your DA. I'm not sure what DAs weigh. If you want to autocross, you would probably be better off with your stock engine and a B16A trans. The B18 makes MUCH more low end than the B16. The B16A will be faster than your stock engine because it has better top end....but you're not always using top end in autocross...you're quite frequently bogged down. The B18 will fare much better in those situations.

If you swap the engine, it will also put you in a higher class for autocrossing. You won't be competitive at all. If you're going for just the fun factor and not collecting trophies, then that part of it doesn't really matter.

You should really consider a B18C and a cable B16 trans for your car. That would be better for autocrossing, but obviously more expensive. Cable B16 complete swaps are F'ing cheap. Buying a Sir-G/GSR/ITR engine and a cable trans plus the correct ECU is going to be a bit more $$. You could always go the route of buying a complete OBD1 B18C black top swap and a cable to hydro adapter as well. Autocross your car as is and save up for the bigger motor. Do it once. Be happy.

You could also swap in a B20 for less than half the price of the B16 and have better results for autocross, plus no wiring. For a first time swap this would be the easiest and cheapest, plus you can always add Vtec for a small price down the road, and possibly still have less money in it than a B16. Just so you know, I'm not dissing the B16 its where I started but with the way the aftermarket support is now you would waste a lot of money you could be using for more seat time which is ultimately what makes it all worth while. YOU are the decider, do as much research as possible and don't ever let someone else make your decisions for you or you could end up with a nice garage peice you sit in and listen to music and wish you had any kind of engine just to be able to drive.

also for your ecu; your stock ecu will work fine and with the money you save you could swap to obd1 and get some tuning time

200WHP stock bottom end hondas are not unheard of. you don't have to build your b16 out the wazoo to hit that mark. Tuning and machine work are key. People widely underestimate the potential of stock honda blocks. There are plenty of them floating around, just have to look.

I was posting this info b/c of the comment about them being weak. They aren't.

the b16 is what came in the the xsi in japan. It shoudl be fine.

As for autox one engine being better than the other i disagree. if you learn to drive your car/engine combination you can make it work. you are almost never out of 1st and 2nd gear, sometimes but very rarely 3rd during most autox events. I would hope you're not trying to run a race like situation such as autox in second gear at mid/low rpms. My neighbor/friend has a b20 swapped DC2 and last autox the cars were pretty much even. differences in times were due to my cracked crossmember (discoverd after event) and the dc2 having nearly 20% more overall chassis rigidity than a DA.

It's all relative.

My point is however that high horsepower builds BOTH NA and FI can be achieved with stock honda blocks. THey are tougher than you think. And they can be build reliably.

case in point . . .

omniman's stock block 200whp b16a build.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1338941

http://www.sromagazine.com/article1259.html

http://www.2fasttech.com/zerothread?id=1473

Thanks for all the help on this topic.


BUT

I am not going to be swapping in a b16a into my car.

I am going to be sticking with rebuilding my motor that currently has 220,xxx miles on it, or purchasing a JDM B18b with an lsd tranny, when the current one decides to give up whenever that may be.

I am wondering now though on the B18b, I have seen some horse power numbers on it such as 140 to even a really odd number of 143 but I think of the site I saw 143 from. Would it be possible to build a B18 to crank out maybe +20 or +30 hp and torque quite similar to a b20.

Tell me if its possible and give me some information on that.

I have figured out that yeah in autocross I am not really getting into 4th or 5th gear.

Integras and 1.6 engines just don't seem to go hand in hand IMO.

Civics - 1.6 and up

Integras - 1.8 and up (Should never downgrade)

Plus, Integras are heavier than Civics. Needs more torque, which a B16 doesn't have a lot of.

do a gsr, I love it, especially on boost. Im making over 300 whp, stock motor with no probs, tuning is the key.

The B18B1 came from the factory with 142hp to the wheels. The B18B might be another story, but I don't know.

You can pull another 15-20 lb/ft of tq out of the B18B, but not without some fairly extensive modifications to the engine.

If you really want the low end torque like the B20, try to get a B20. That's the least expensive option. from there you can do the CRVTEC and have the low end of the B20, with the high flow characteristics of the B18C head, giving you more top end power.

If you can get a hold of a B18C1, go for it, but don't expect to spend less than $1000 or so depeding on how many miles are on it.

The b18b came with 140hp to the crank, not the wheels. The jdm version gets 142 to the crank.

You can get significant power out of an LS with simple modifications. A good intake, header, and exhaust system mated to a nice set of cams, and some good tuning can net quite a bit. Last LS I saw spit out 138 to the wheels with simple bolt ons.

Torque wise, if you really want B20 like torque, like said above, find a B20 block. To squeeze those kinds of numbers you need to do some internal work. It'll add up fast.

Well that or boost haha.

This post was last modified: 10-03-2008 09:05 AM by IcemanGSR.

You said the exact same thing as what ThatOneDude said.

really? did i? read it again. i agreed with his b20 statement and was more specific about modifications.

It's all good. Just thought it was funny.

Well you can site ONE dude that has a 200whp B16A and all of a sudden it's commonplace?

Cmon man, no offense, but that doesn't make sense.

This guy got lots of praise for doing this. He got into a magazine, made a DVD, got lots of E-thug attention, etc. etc. You don't get all that unless you did something that's pretty outlandish or impressive.

Here's an example: If I sent pictures of my EM1 with stock everything except for I/H/E/IM and claimed "145hp to the wheels", you think anyone would even bat an eye? No. Because THAT'S commonplace. 200whp out of a B16A used on the street is not easy nor is it commonplace. Nor would it be a good choice for autocross since it probably has a 200rpm power band.

The OP doesn't exactly sound like the engine building expert either. So the fact that some crazy dude on Honda tech made 200whp out of his B16A doesn't mean the OP can do the same thing and it also doesn't mean that the OP WANTS to do the same thing. It's irrelevant. Sorry.

You work at a tuning shop. The OP wanted a DD car that's reliable, easily put together, and is autox able. If he came into your shop asking for those criteria, would you suggest a 200WHP NA B16A to be his goal for those duties? Honestly.....how many ACTUAL daily driven, streetable, and easily driveable NA 200whp B16As have left your shop?


300whp being reliable is a whole another story. If your definition of reliable is laxed, I can understand how a 300whp turbo B16A would be reliable. I'm friends with the owner of a shop around here. I've also seen tons of 300whp stock internal/block B16As. Not one owner or builder has claimed absolute reliability. You have to be real here. A 300whp stock block/internal B16A is going to be significantly less reliable than stock.

I agree that you have to learn how to drive your setup at an AUTOX. I've been there. But torque always seems to be an advantage. I'll go as far as to bet that if you had the same chassis; one with a B16A and one with a B18A and B16 trans, the B18A car would come out on top every time. Low end torque is super important at AUTOX.

I know that XSis come with B16As. But if you had a torquey motor with a low geared trans, that's going to be an excellent autocross contender.

This post was last modified: 10-04-2008 08:02 PM by B serious.

Does no one read on this site? The ONLY reason I posted that was to contend the comment about B16s being weak. I posted that example b/c it happens to be the most readily available. My reasoning was to show that 200whp stock block b16s can be built to make reliable power, and have been. That is all. The OP can do whichever build he wants.

I own the shop actually. And when people come in with questions my team makes certain they have ALL the available options. What that "crazy dude" did is nothing any of you all couldn't do with a bit of patience and a Helms manual. People think it's a one time thing that can only be done by an expert. Tuning is the key to a good build, especially a good all motor build. If you have a good shop with a good tuner, all you really need to do is ask them to help you achieve a goal and they will give you the options and help to get there.